• About
  • Contact
  • Staff

Law & Liberty

A Project of Liberty Fund

  • Home
  • Blog
  • Liberty Law Forum
  • Podcasts
  • Book Reviews

December 3, 2013|Antonin Scalia, Ed Meese, Old Originalism, Originalism, Raoul Berger, Robert Bork

Berman and Toh on the New and Old Originalism: Part II – The Old Originalism

by Mike Rappaport|3 Comments

(This three part post addresses the new article on Originalism by Berman and Toh. In my first post on this article, I argued that the New Originalism is not primarily concerned with theories of law. Here I move on to Berman and Toh’s discussion of the old originalism.)

Berman and Toh also claim that the old originalists were mainly concerned with theories of adjudication rather than theories of law. Berman and Toh assert that Bork, Meese and Scalia are all focused on constraining judges rather than about the law.

But this claim is also problematic. To begin, Berman and Toh admit that Raoul Berger – perhaps the oldest of the old originalists – had a theory of law. But Bork also (in the Tempting of America) argued that the Constitution was law (and therefore could only be changed by legal procedures). In fact, that might have been his principal argument.

Even Meese in a short speech to which Berman and Tod refer, founds his argument on the fact that the Constitution is law. It is true that he uses that as an argument for why judges are bound by that law, but the basis of his argument is that the Constitution is law.

In addition, old originalist Lino Graglia also has a theory of the Constitution as law, as Berman and Toh admit.

Thus, if Berger, Bork, and Graglia had a theory of law (and if Meese also founded his argument on the Constitution as law), then it is hard to argue that the old originalism did not base its argument on law.

Instead, many old originalists had both theories of law and adjudication. They believed the Constitution was law and they believed that meant that judges should follow the law.

Of course, the old originalists made their arguments in what might seem to be relatively unsophisticated ways to later originalists. The new originalists have built upon the old originalists and have become more academic and more academically sophisticated. So perhaps it is something of a stretch to say that Berger or Meese had a theory of law. But it is fair to say that they relied on – and clearly assumed – that the Constitution was law.

Mike Rappaport

Professor Rappaport is Darling Foundation Professor of Law at the University of San Diego, where he also serves as the Director of the Center for the Study of Constitutional Originalism. Professor Rappaport is the author of numerous law review articles in journals such as the Yale Law Journal, the Virginia Law Review, the Georgetown Law Review, and the University of Pennsylvania Law Review. His book, Originalism and the Good Constitution, which is co-authored with John McGinnis, was published by the Harvard University Press in 2013.  Professor Rappaport is a graduate of the Yale Law School, where he received a JD and a DCL (Law and Political Theory).

About the Author

Slavery, Abortion, and the Politics of Constitutional Meaning
The Disposition of Common Law: A Reply to Barry Shain and John McGinnis

Recent Popular Posts

  • Popular
  • Today Week Month All
  • Reading the State of Britain with Roger Scruton April 19, 2018
  • Chappaquiddick Rescues the Truth: Kopechne Needn’t Have Died April 20, 2018
  • The Constitution and Executive Privilege July 12, 2012
  • Explaining the New Illiberal Liberalism April 18, 2018
  • The Successes and Failure of John Quincy Adams September 18, 2014
Ajax spinner

Related Posts

Related

Comments

  1. Kevin R. Hardwick says

    December 3, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Mike–

    It seems to me that you are writing here primarily for people who are already well familiar with the conversation over originalism, at a fairly deep level. Nothing wrong with that–that’s the world in which most academics live. Most of us, most of the time, are speaking to a relatively narrow group of folks with whom we share a particular, focused and technical conversation. But it does narrow your audience.

    Let me give you an example of what I mean. You write: “Thus, if Berger, Bork, and Graglia had a theory of law (and if Meese also founded his argument on the Constitution as law), then it is hard to argue that the old originalism did not base its argument on law.” But read literally, with no assumed knowledge, this is a non-sequitor. After all, just because I have a theory of something does not mean that I must base all of my argument on that theory. I might, for example, argue that the Constitution is law, but that it is also does other things. Don Lutz in his discussion of constitutionalism, notes that among other things, a constitution creates a people. If I wish to argue about that–about what it means to create a people–I do not have to speak at all to the constitution as law. In that kind of argument, the fact that I have a theory of law is irrelevant to the argument I am making. Hence, I can easily imagine circumstances in which the claim you make above is false.

    I suspect that it actually, in context, makes a great deal of sense. But while you are well familiar with that context, I am not.

    All best,
    Kevin

    Reply
  2. Mike RappaportMike Rappaport says

    December 3, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    You are right as a logical matter: just because you have a theory of something does not mean that you base your argument on it. But I think it is fair for the reader to infer that the latter claim is also being made.

    Reply
  3. Kevin R. Hardwick says

    December 4, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Mike–

    It is still the case that I am mostly on the outside of the conversation in which you are engaged–it is not that I don’t want to understand it, or to appreciate the positions you are articulating. But it is the case that I often find myself unable to discern with adequate confidence what is at stake in the conversation. I don’t mean this a criticism, since I think it is quite legitimate for you to be writing mostly for the others in the conversation. But on the other hand, it is at least possible you would like people like me to be able to follow the nuances–and if that is the case, it may be useful for you to know that I don’t think I am.

    Of course, it is also possible that I am just obtuse, so take all of this with a grain of salt.

    Well wishes,
    Kevin

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Book Reviews

John C. Calhoun, Madisonian Manqué

by Thomas W. Merrill

His institutional innovations were geared toward preserving slavery.

Read More

The Road to Iranian Democracy

by Luma Simms

The suppression of the Green Movement last time around widened the gulf between Iran’s elite and its people.

Read More

Podcasts

The Solid Ground of Mere Civility: A Conversation with Teresa Bejan

A discussion with Teresa M. Bejan

Teresa Bejan discusses with us how early modern debates over religious toleration are an example of how we can disagree well.

Read More

Leading a Worthy Life in a Scattered Time: A Conversation with Leon Kass

A discussion with Leon Kass

Leon Kass discusses Leading a Worthy Life.

Read More

Eric Voegelin Studies: A Conversation with Charles Embry

A discussion with Charles Embry

What did “Don’t immanentize the eschaton!” really mean? An intro podcast on the formidable mind of Eric Voegelin.

Read More

Republican Virtue, Interrupted: A Conversation with Frank Buckley

A discussion with F.H. Buckley

The real conflict in our politics centers on reforming massive levels of public corruption.

Read More

Recent Posts

  • Chappaquiddick Rescues the Truth: Kopechne Needn’t Have Died

    Mary Jo Kopechne perished not because Ted Kennedy crashed his car, but because the legacy was more important than telling the authorities she was in it.
    by Nathaniel Peters

  • Superman and the Drive-By Media

    Prime territory for Clark Kent to investigate: the biased and superficial work done by our most prominent journalists.
    by Mark Judge

  • Partisan Gerrymandering and The Original Meaning of “Election”

    States are responsible for the nature of elections: without a strong historical argument to the contrary, partisan gerrymandering is constitutional.
    by Mike Rappaport

  • Reading the State of Britain with Roger Scruton

    In Where We Are, Roger Scruton helps us see Britain's possible futures, but the question remains: is he pessimistic enough?
    by Theodore Dalrymple

  • Is Partisan Gerrymandering of Congressional Elections Unconstitutional Under the Original Meaning?

    Professor Ned Foley argues that the Constitution limits congressional gerrymandering. Why is this?
    by Mike Rappaport

Blogroll

  • Acton PowerBlog
  • Cafe Hayek
  • Cato@Liberty
  • Claremont
  • Congress Shall Make No Law
  • EconLog
  • Fed Soc Blog
  • First Things
  • Hoover
  • ISI First Principles Journal
  • Legal Theory Blog
  • Marginal Revolution
  • Pacific Legal Liberty Blog
  • Point of Law
  • Power Line
  • Professor Bainbridge
  • Ricochet
  • Right Reason
  • Spengler
  • The American
  • The Beacon Blog
  • The Foundry
  • The Originalism Blog
  • The Public Discourse
  • University Bookman
  • Via Meadia
  • Volokh

Archives

  • All Posts & Publications
  • Book Reviews
  • Liberty Forum
  • Liberty Law Blog
  • Liberty Law Talk

About

Law and Liberty’s focus is on the content, status, and development of law in the context of republican and limited government and the ways that liberty and law and law and liberty mutually reinforce the other. This site brings together serious debate, commentary, essays, book reviews, interviews, and educational material in a commitment to the first principles of law in a free society. Law and Liberty considers a range of foundational and contemporary legal issues, legal philosophy, and pedagogy.

  • Home
  • About
  • Staff
  • Contact
  • Archive

Apple App Store
Google Play Store

© 2018 Liberty Fund, Inc.

Subscribe
Get Law and Liberty's latest content delivered to you daily
  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.
No thanks